Cry It Not

As you might have guessed from the title, this post is about a topic guaranteed to raise hackles and bring out the profanity and the hurt feelings in every comments section it touches.

Yes, that's right: college football.

Ba-dum-ching.

In all seriousness, I'm going to attempt to keep the tone of this discussion as light as possible, but I simply cannot pass up the chance to talk about it, especially after a conversation I had this past weekend.

Before I get started, I want Maggie to know that this post has been in the works for a while and that its timing has absolutely nothing to do with her.  And also, Maggie: it's NOT your fault.

This post also comes with a whopper of a disclaimer.

DISCLAIMER:  I am not judging any person or persons who have used the cry-it-out method of sleep training with their children.  I have SO been there with the sleep desperation - err, deprivation - and I can completely understand what would drive someone to try anything to get their kid to sleep.  I've also read enough of the sleep training books to know that the authors make cry-it-out sound like a very reasonable option, and I can understand how someone could become convinced that the cry-it-out proponents were talking good sense.  I don't believe that letting your kid cry-it-out will cause him to grow up to be a serial killer.  I do not think you are a bad parent if you've done it.

That bears repeating.  If you've done cry-it-out, please do not take this post as a condemnation of you.  It is nothing of the sort.

I am not implying in any way that some people are worse parents because they use cry-it-out, or that some other people are better parents because they do not.  (In fact, fair warning: any comments to that effect will be deleted.)  I am writing this post to discuss what I consider to be some basic philosophical problems with the cry-it-out ideology.  I consider parents - sleep-deprived and desperate as they sometimes are - to be the victims, not the perpetrators, of this ideology, which is often thrust upon them on many sides by people who think it is the best and/or only way to get children to sleep well.  If a sleep-book-writing pro-cry-it-out "expert" or an interfering pro-cry-it-out grandparent is reading this, he or she is free to take it personally.  The rest of you, please don't.

I also want to mention that when I say "cry-it-out," I'm not referring to what I think of as "fuss-it-out," where a child who is not noticeably frightened by his parents' absence appears to benefit from a small amount of wailing to wind himself down to sleep.  I'm also not referring to any kind of crying that occurs while the parents are with the child - we've done some of that ourselves, since our baby appears to release tension by crying and often needs to yell a little bit before she crashes in our arms.  I'm specifically referring to what I believe is known as "extinction cry-it-out" wherein a child is left to cry by himself for extended periods of time, during which his panic increases and he is clearly scared by the absence of his parents.  This is what I'll be referring to when I use the acronym CIO.

All right, let's get started.

Scenario A:  Let's say there's a six-year-old who has a crippling fear of spiders.  Every time he sees a spider he collapses in hysteria on the floor, screaming for his parents to make the spider go away.  Obviously, this is a problem, especially when it happens in the aisle at the grocery store.  So his parents develop a tactic to deal with this behavior, and help him learn to act normally when he sees a spider.  When he sees one and he goes into hysterics, they put him in a room full of spiders and leave him there until he calms himself.  This takes hours the first time, but by the third or fourth time he calms himself pretty quickly in the spider-filled room.  From then on he never expresses a fear of spiders, and they don't hear a peep out of him when he sees one.  Voila!  They've cured his fear, and made life easier for themselves.  Parents-of-the-Year Award for them.

Wait.  What?

Scenario B:  Let's say there's a one-year-old who has a crippling fear of being left alone at night.  Every time she's left in a room by herself she becomes hysterical, screaming for her parents to come to her.  Obviously, this is a problem, especially when it happens multiple times in the middle of the night.  So her parents develop a tactic to deal with this behavior, and help her learn to act normally when left alone.  When they put her in her crib and she goes into hysterics, they leave her in the room alone until she calms herself by falling asleep.  This takes hours the first time, but by the third or fourth time she calms herself pretty quickly in the room alone.  From then on she never expresses a fear of being left alone at night, and they don't hear a peep out of her when they put her in her crib and leave the room.  Voila!  They've cured her fear, and made life easier for themselves.  Parents-of-the-Year Award for them.

Scenario A is clearly psychological abuse.  Scenario B is acted out regularly in the homes of well-meaning, non-abusive parents all over the country.  Why is this, when they're essentially the same tactic?

I don't think that people who do CIO do it because they believe ruthlessly exposing their child to the thing she fears is the best way to get her to stop fearing it.  But the parents don't see what they're doing as exposing the child to fear; they've been convinced that the child is not crying out of fear, but for some other reason, sheer cussedness and/or manipulation of his parents being the most commonly cited.

This is what I consider to be the main problem behind the CIO ideology: it discriminates against the non-verbal.  A baby can't explain that she is scared of her parents leaving her, so others get to decide what she's really expressing with all that crying. 

Now, I realize that it is logically possible that the baby is manipulating her parents rather than expressing fear when she cries.  But based on my own personal experience, I've never been able to believe this.

I can remember being scared at night.  I was prone to becoming obsessed with various scary thoughts - wolves and lions when I was younger, and when I was older a fear of being kidnapped - and on numerous occasions I would call down the stairs to my parents and they would help me deal with the fear so that I could finally go to sleep.  Also, until I was eight or nine years old, I would routinely wake up in the middle of the night and feel alone and scared so that I'd go get in bed with my parents.  My parents were great about it: they would escort me back to my own bed after five or ten minutes, but they always made sure that I knew they loved me and that there was nothing to be afraid of. 

I was in elementary school at the time, not even close to being a baby.  I could understand that my parents were in the house and that they loved me even when they were not in the room, and yet I still occasionally needed their presence to help me go to sleep in the evening and to go back to sleep in the middle of the night.  I was not manipulating them in any way.  I was not refusing to go to sleep on my own because I wanted to give them a hard time.  I was simply scared, and young enough that I was not equipped to deal with it on my own.

This is why I do not buy the idea that a one-year-old who is crying in the night is manipulating her parents.  This is why my gut tells me that when she is crying alone in a room, she is scared.  This is why I have such a big problem with the idea that the proper solution to a baby or toddler's continuous requests for the presence of her parents is to remove that presence so that she learns it is fruitless to ask for it.  Because I think about my own five- or seven-year-old self, and how badly it would have affected me if my parents had refused to give me the comfort I needed, and I can only imagine that it would hurt a little one much, much more.

I do understand that all babies are different.  My baby becomes almost immediately hysterical with fear when we leave her sight, but not all babies do the same thing.  I believe that the parents are the ones who are equipped to know whether their baby is crying out of fear or is just ticked off, and that they are the ones who should decide how to deal with that crying.  What I have a problem with is the imperative implicit in the CIO ideology: the idea that in order to achieve the goal of getting the baby to sleep, a parent should ignore his or her own instincts about what the child is expressing, as well as his or her own instinctive desire to comfort the child.  I can't count the number of times I've heard or read, "We did CIO, and it felt so wrong and I hated it, but it worked."

Yes, parenthood often involves doing things you don't want to do.  I've held my daughter through four sets of immunizations, and hated every minute of that.  But the payoff of the health benefits far outweighs the pain she underwent, which was fleeting and merely physical.  Does the payoff of a child who sleeps the way the experts say he or she "should" outweigh the prolonged emotional trauma the child may undergo in the process?  Especially when that trauma may conceivably have effects that last a lifetime?

Recently I had a very illuminating conversation with a guy I know.  The person wanted me to know how impressed he was that despite Camilla being so high-needs, Bryan and I had committed to never letting her be scared in any way by our absence.  I have to admit I was a little surprised that this particular person had even noticed, but after a few minutes of talking I realized why he felt so strongly about it.  He himself was left to cry it out as a baby, and while not blaming he parents - "there were circumstances," he says - it's clear that he carries the effects of that experience to this day, with a strong fear of abandonment, among other things.

My parents never left me to cry it out so I can only vaguely imagine, but this person described it succinctly.  As a baby, you need your parents.  When they don't come when you cry, it's "like the bottom falls out of your world."  I could tell as he was saying it that he could remember it.  Not consciously, of course, but still.  He remembers. 

I know that the CIO people say that studies show that CIO has no ill-effects on children.  I can't speak to the studies, but it seems to me that if there are people out there who still carry the scars of being left to cry alone decades earlier, then "no ill-effects" cannot be absolutely true.

There are so many other issues in play that would be worth discussing here.  Whether expecting children to soothe themselves to sleep and sleep through the night at x age is reasonable.  Why children sleeping in rooms apart from their parents is the norm in our society, even though it hasn't been in most times and places throughout human history.  Mitigating factors such as parental depression/psychosis exacerbated by sleep deprivation.  Signals that babies do give in re: whether they're crying because they're scared.  The overall trend of "expert"-driven parenting.  I could go on and on.

But I've already written 2000+ words here on this topic and I feel like I've just scratched the surface, so if I don't want to be writing for a week this seems as good a place as any to stop.

*steps back, opens giant can of worms*

I would be very interested in a civil discussion in the comments section, if anyone has thoughts to share.  Remember my earlier warning about not judging any particular parent.  We are just talking about ideas here.  If I feel a comment is borderline, I will delete it, so be very thoughtful and cautious in your comments.

*takes deep breath*

*hits "publish"*

Comments

[Lindsay]

Hmm. I obviously have no experience since I don't have children, but I have read a lot being a Psych major and I think that CIO is generally a bad idea on the whole, as well. Even in the womb babies get accustomed to their mothers' voices and the mothers' voices can calm babies before they're born and immediately afterwards. The calming effect that a mother's voice has on a child seems like it would really help. Also, infants respond very positively to physical touch. To me that seems like a reason to not practise the CIO method, but I haven't read the books by so-called parenting experts. *shrug* What I've said may not be entirely relevant to the topic. Though, I mean, I have my own personal experiences from my childhood of feeling abandoned when I was slightly older (I don't know what my parents did with me personally), and to this day that still affects me and it's hard for me to deal with. It's had pretty bad effects on me, but I don't know if this is necessarily normal or if I'm just abnormally sensitive because of my personality/temperament. I'm completely babbling on about absolutely nothing, aren't I? I should probably stop now.

[Michelle]

I'll try to be as thoughtful and cautious in my comments as a sleep-deprived mom of three kids who is 36 weeks pregnant with her fourth can be. My first kids were twins. For the first twelve weeks of their life I didn't much sleep, what the nursing them, rocking them, etc. Then they started sleeping beautifully. This lasted not nearly long enough. When they began the nightmare of waking every 45 minutes during the night, I got my first real taste of sleep deprivation. When they hit 7 months, I had not slept more than 45 minutes since before their birth (when the hospital staff woke me every night to take my vitals for 7 weeks.) I knew something had to be done. I read every book I could find. I talked to every mom I knew. Especially moms of twins, since it's different than caring for a singleton, as you are being double-teamed. (My husband worked a schedule that did not allow him to be home at night.) I took all the information and created my own method of dealing with the problem. I always rocked the girls to sleep and I decided that this was kind of like state-dependent learning for them. Whenever they awoke during the night, they wanted to fall back to sleep the same way they had done it the first time. This was killing me. So the first thing I did was change up their bedtime routine. It helped, but they were still getting up at least 4 times each during the night. I then began to not pick them up from their cribs, but rock/pat them gently and "shh" them. It worked to some extent, but still, they woke up again and again. Finally, I tried a form of CIO - but never leaving them alone for more than 5 minutes. Four days later I got my first taste of sleep. This is what worked for them and for me. With my singleton - HA! She's what I call an "escalator" - if I let her cry, she gets so worked up that she'll never sleep. Obviously, this method would never work for her. She's not a self-soother during the day, so there's no way she'd do it at night. I used a different method from birth with her, watching for her sleepy signals, putting her down awake but drowsy, etc. It worked really well for a long time. Then due to an unfortunate accident, her sleep cycle changed and now she's up a few times every night. That's ok - she needs me during the night. She's got me for 2 more weeks - then my hubby will have to take over with her because I'll be up with a newborn. This new baby will have her own routine and we'll have to figure out what works for her. I think something that is key is that every child is different, so different methods are going to work for them. My twins were good self-soothers during the day, so I knew that they'd be able to self-soothe at night. My three year old is NOT a self-soother in any way, shape or form. So, she's not going to do it at night.
For the record - I'm not a proponent of one method or another, just of doing what works for your family. I could never let my 3 year old CIO, she'd wake the entire household and that would be good for nobody!

[Ann]

I'm also against CIO because I think it is our job as parents to establish a relationship with our babies. How can we do this if we ignore a baby's form of communication -- crying? If we ignore a baby's communication, then we are not starting this relationship off well. The bilateral communication will develop, but we must learn to listen to our babies first. It's hard enough to figure out what your baby needs, why purposely ignore what your baby is telling you? I don't want to break that "look" my baby gives me -- it's a look of trust.

That being said, I only have one child (5 months) and she is a good sleeper, so I don't really know what I am talking about!

[MaryBeth]

I basically agree with everything you have said. I will add that I remember several conversations with several different parents who all said that it was torture for them as well - that they would sit in the hallway outside of the child's room and cry and cry. It just seems odd to be sitting there crying because you know your child is scared and it hurts you to hear them cry - yet to do nothing about it. I feel that I've earned the right to say that without judgment because I always thought I'd be on of those parents who did the CIO, and I tried it with my first. It was awful. Never again. Although, my second child, would not sleep in our bed/room. He wanted to be in his crib, in his room, in total quiet. I contend that every single child is an individual and they all have to treated as such. I know that my 3 are all completely different (by nature not nurture) and we had to make different arrangements for all three. I think the biggest thing new or prospective parents could take from your post is that all of this expert-driven parenting is undermining their God-given intuition and to only refer to books when there is a problem you just need some outside thoughts/advice to help you come to a solution.
Sorry for the rambling. I'll stop now.

[Kim]

I think there are some instances where "fuss it out" is fine, even when the parents aren't there. But I know, despite friends who are, that I cannot be a CIO parent (if I ever get to parent). I just can't let a baby cry. It goes against our wiring as human beings.

I am curious - I posted a comment in the post about cosleeping - how, if at all, you sleeping apart from Bryan and Camilla affects your marriage, and how, if at all, cosleeping affects your marriage. I never coslept with my parents (only for short periods of time if I was frightened, etc., and my mom always put me back to bed) so it just seems counterintuitive to me for the baby to come into the parents/marriage bed. But that's just me. I'd be interested to hear your take on it.

(and I reiterate that I am not a mom, and nothing I am saying is meant to be judgemental. :) I am just curious and like to hear different sides of the story. I just want to hear yours personally, if you've got time.)

[Tara]

I think it's interesting how CIO is such a cultural thing. I have been pressured to do it by friends, pediatricians, etc., yet it just doesn't feel right to me- especially with my high needs, fast-to-hysterics seven month-old.

A good friend and I are pretty much on the same page with this issue, and she has had the opportunity to ask two mothers of older children from two different African countries if they did CIO. Both said that it is not practiced at all in their cultures. I thought that was interesting.

It seems like all "the experts" have created this mentality in our culture that we need to "whip our babies into shape." Some kids are good sleepers, and mine is not one of them. I wish I had not read so many of those blasted books and started this sleep journey with more realistic expectations.

[Kim]

(By personally, I meant your individual story, not personally as in via email. Whatever. You probably know that. but wanted to clear it up.)

And in general, I used to think I'd be a CIO parent when/if I had kids. But I know now, after watching my nephew (who is also an escalator) that it just doesn't always work. And I also know that letting my kid cry for longer than X amount of minutes just seems cruel. I have friends who let their kids cry for hours, and it breaks their hearts, and just seems super pointless to me.

[Amy]

Listening to Luke cry without doing something would scare me, so I can only image how scared it would make him feel. I even have a hard time letting him fuss it out, simply because the moment I hold him it usually stops. My husband has been known to let him fuss it out when I'm not home. This is just because he's usually missing me and no amount of holding by Daddy will make him stop missing me. Fussing and crying are rare, so we really haven't discussed the issue. I have a feeling that Chad would let him cry it out, but I just can't. Some friends and relatives have joked about how quickly we respond to Luke, but isn't that what we're supposed to do as parents? I believe that parents need to trust their instincts. I fully support everything that you mentioned in your post and it was beautifully written, as always.

[Ellen]

Seeing as I don't have kids, it's incredibly easy for me to have a strong opinion on this and any other parenting topic out there. I fully realize that any hubris I have on parenting issues is just setting myself up for a lesson in humility should I someday have children.

But, with that disclaimer in mind, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Before nursing school I got a degree in psychology and I strongly believe that your dad is correct--the way parents respond to infants and young children can affect them for life. I also speak from personal experience. While I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my parents were trying to raise me (a vey high-needs infant and young child) in the best way they knew how and that they loved me as much as a parent could love a child, I can see how some of my issues as an adult stem directly from some of their methods of coping with my tantrums.

So, all of that to say, I think you're right. :) I like what some of the other commenters are saying about knowing your own child--that for some kids fussing it out works and for others it doesn't. As for your definition of CIO, though, I'm not a fan.

[bethanysmama007]

This is such an appropriate post for our house! Our daughter Bethany fell into a fantastic sleep pattern at around 3 months (we didn't know how lucky we were!) and fell out of it with a crash almost two months ago. Now, we have an eleven-month-old that naps in her crib and begins the night there, but comes into our bed and cosleeps/nurses the rest of the night with us.

Many times I feel guilty that we nurture her by bringing her in with us at night (wow, just typing that makes me angry at those CIO experts!) and I wish I knew how to teach her that it is OK for her to go back to sleep on her own. However, neither DH or I feel like we could stomach CIO, because we feel that she is developing the foundation of her relational worldview right now. She cries because she needs us, and we go to her. Maybe someday she will grow out of it and realize we are there without waking multiple times per night, but for now that is how we are functioning.

I totally understand what you mean about Camilla getting frightened when you leave the room. We have borrowed a phrase from Dr. Sears and call Bethany VELCRO BABY, because she only wants to be stuck to me. Many times even DH won't do. It makes perfect sense that if she is like that during the day the behavior will surface at night, too.

Like others, I feel like I've said too much and will quiet myself. I just wanted to let you know it is nice to hear what others think about the topic, because it is a big issue in our house right now!

[George]

I read 75% of your post before I realized you weren't going to talk about football. :-\

[JoAnn in NJ]

Intersting post and one that I am reading as my 28 month old daughter is sleeping next to me in bed.

One of the things we are taught as adoptive parents to be, is that you must respond to your child's needs immediately so they can see that you will meet them. This is primal in attachment and if your child isn't attached to you, then sleep issues will be the least of your problems.

However, this co-sleeping stuff isn't good for my marriage. Kelsey was a great sleeper and slept all night in her crib until last summer when it was too hot to make her sleep in her room (no central air). She wasn't going to sleep in her pack n play so she slept with us. Now, she won't even nap in her crib anymore. She's been home 20 months, so attachment is no longer the issue, but I still can't bring myself to make her CIO. And she's told me that she doesn't like her room and she doesn't like the dark.

[Laura]

One of your points that I really agree with is that parents know their baby and should trust their instincts as to what their baby needs. We never did full-fledged CIO, but definitely did periods of fuss-it-out with our three children. For a variety of reasons, a family bed arrangement was not a good choice for us and our babies needed to gradually learn to sleep on their own. But, for me, this meant gradually learning their personalities, their cries, and their limits. It was different, and continues to be, for each child.

A light-bulb moment for me was when I realized that the cry I heard when I put them in the crib was the same cry as "I hate my car seat, get me out of this thing" or "I don't like this high chair, I'd rather be running around the house with food", etc. They weren't scared, they just didn't want to be doing what I wanted them to be doing. It was the "this crib is boring and I'd rather be out with you having fun" cry. I realized that I was okay putting them in their car seats, even though they'd rather not be there. And, I wanted our children to learn (despite protestations) that in our house, we sit at the table. And, in our house, we (mostly) sleep in our own beds. That "I'm ticked at you" cry never lasted more than 10-15 minutes and it was clear if it escalated to an "I'm scared and need you now" cry. (This was all at around 10-12 mos though, I have no idea how you make these differentiations in a much younger baby... I was never able to do it.)

I guess what I'm saying is that what we did could look like CIO to an outsider, but I know that we were tuned in to our children's emotional needs. Because I'm the parent and I know my babies. And I love that you recognize this facet of the discussion. It so often gets overlooked. Great post!

[maggie]

How appropriate to be reading this now, while my kid is voicing his extreme displeasure as his father rocks him to sleep.

I've only been doing this parenting gig for six months now, but every day I become a bigger proponent of Whatever Works For Your Kid. The couple of times we've let Jack cry it's been awful, but not because I think he's scared. He could be, but it always sounds angry to me. As in: How dare you leave me in this crib while you get to watch Heroes downstairs! He always always always fights sleep. That's why we thought CIO might be a good idea, but we couldn't hack it. My husband is an even bigger sucker than I am and one of us was always dashing to the crib after 5 or 10 minutes.

FIO, on the other hand, seems to work really well on our baby. We're gradually getting him used to falling asleep without being rocked and a lot of times it seems he prefers to be left alone in his crib to fuss, sometimes falling asleep while we're watching.

But if he starts the REAL crying, game over. I'd rather be awake and rocking the baby than awake with my hands over my ears.

[kim]

Laura hit the nail on the head. To me the issue is that too many moms who are anti-CIO categorize any sort of crying at bedtime as horrible and abusive and neglectful.

My twins are not afraid when I put them to bed at night, they are mad they aren't playing with us downstairs. And in the middle of the night, when my daughter cries (my son is a champion sleeper), I get up, and she co-sleeps with my partner and I. It works for us. In the middle of the night, she's scared, when she cries at bedtime, she's mad. I know the difference and i know when it's ok to let her settle on her own.

As with everything, it's a matter of degree. I just feel like too many moms are willing to be judgemental.

[Jen]

I was a psychology major so here is my philosophy. Erik Erikson's first stage of development is trust vs. mistrust. It basically means that an infant needs to decide whether it can trust the world (which is basically its parents at that point) or not. I'm not saying that this means you shouldn't do cry-it-out or that you should do it. To me, it means that you should figure out what is going to teach your baby trust in having its needs met.

[Caroline]

When I was pregnant with my first so many people told me not to let the baby sleep in my bed because we'd never get him out. He slept great in his crib until 9 months at which point he woke up every 30 minutes...unless he was in bed with us. Around his 2nd birthday we put him in his own bed, but he still needed to be cuddled to sleep. Now at 3.5 he kisses Mama, Daddy and baby James good night and happily trots to bed. Baby James starts out in his crib and ends up in our bed when he wakes up in the middle of the night because that's what works for us. My point is that it takes some tinkering to find what works with each child. And we may have to change it after a couple of months. I believe that's the best advice.

I'm sorry this comment is so disjointed, I'm snuggling a cranky babe as I type. The essence of my comment: I agree with you. :)

[Diane]

You have stated all of my thoughts on this so well. I have always felt that putting my daughter in a dark room by herself would be frightening. Perhaps that is me putting my own fears onto her, because even to this day I'm not a fan of being alone in the dark, but I simply can't take the chance. She is 15 months old, and we went through times where the only way she would sleep through the evening was if one of us was holding her. We got more rolled eyes and disapproving looks during this time than any other, but WE were OK with it. We were the ones sacrificing our brief hours of aloneness, and yet we were still going as strong as ever, finding ways to work around the situation.

My dad doesn't like that we co-sleep, because he said we are "starting a habit that will be impossible to break." I don't understand this at all. Perhaps it is my naivete as a first-time parent, but I am finding that the more words she can speak, the more things she understands about her environment, the easier it is to soothe her. While I'm sure it won't be the easiest thing in the world to get her sleeping in her own room when the time comes, I know that, if nothing else, *I* will feel more comforted placing a child who can fully understand the sentence "Mommy and Daddy are right down the hall, if you get scared, you can always come right to us" alone in her own room.

Well put, as always.

[Jeannie]

I have a 20 month old son; we have never done CIO with him because neither his father nor I could bear to hear him cry like that. And he's an escalator -- as a baby, if he started crying for any reason, he'd become hysterical and hard to calm down. Like your dad, I have horrible memories of being left alone in my own bedroom, and I can't do that to my child.

One of my work colleagues is adopting children, and they tell adoptive parents that they must, must MUST respond to their child's needs EVERY time -- be there when the child is angry, sad, upset, anxious, etc. -- because otherwise the adopted child will not bond to them. I think someone said this above.

And I don't understand why if people think this is SO important for adopted children, why the same isn't true for biological children. I have done a lot of reading on attachment and the development of the brain, and it is positively scary to me what happens to a child's brain, hormones, stress levels, stress hormones, when they are left to cry. They have done studies where children who are well bonded and not left to cry grow better, learn better, have better social skills, etc. -- because they have the security to try new things.

Now just a small disclaimer, being left to cry is not the same as fussing it out, or being left for five minutes to try and settle and then being comforted, or having a parent there while they cry ... I think these are all great ways to try and teach your child to self-soothe, and to get some sleep yourself. But as other people point out, there's a difference between a child scared and alone left to cry, and a child who fusses for two minutes because they don't want to go to sleep, and then who self-soothes and sleeps.

Although a second disclaimer that I haven't done either of those things with my kid. Mostly because his sleeping patterns work for us, and he's a good sleeper once he IS asleep. If I had a kid who woke up every 45 minutes all night long, I think I might be ready to reconsider. :)

[Amanda]

Wow. You're brave!

I've tried CIO with both of my kids. Alex was a dream - it was almost as if he'd been waiting for months for me to let him cry. He cried 45 minutes the first night. Ten minutes the next and he's literally slept 1g0-12 hours solid every night since then (startin when he was 10 months old). By around 18 months, he would TELL ME he was tired and wanted to go to bed. He's that good a sleeper. Looking back, my only regret was that we didn't sleep train him sooner.

Genoa, however, is NOT her brother. CIO totally backfired with her and I believe made her entire sleep pattern worsen. She clearly wasn't ready to sleep on her own and sadly she still isn't. We've tried every sleep method imaginable and the only way she sleeps is if a part of her person is touching my person. (Last night she used my side as a foot rest).

I do think you're making a big leap, though, by assuming a crying/screaming/hysterical child is SCARED. Genoa really cranked it up the last time we tried CIO, but she certainly wasn't afraid. I know her scared cry, know it really well because it's different from all the other cries, and that wasn't it. It was her pissed-off cry. She was just MAD that I wasn't immediately responding to her. In fact, why WOULD a baby be afraid of the dark? They'd have no reason to be.

I think people like to look at this as a PARENTing issue, but it SO depends on the child. I think all kids are different and the good parents learn quickly how to distinguish the needs of each individual rather than rely on a steadfast philosophy. I also love what Moxie says - do what's easiest and whatever gets you the most sleep.

[Shelby]

Really well-written and well-thought-out post. I guess I've never given much thought to CIO and whether or not I would be a CIO parent (someday). I certainly have heard horror stories, even from my mother who said she was never "strong enough" to let me or my brother CIO.

Arwen, I remember a post around the time Camilla was born when you talked about using your gut instincts when it came to parenting. I think this post falls into the same category. The idea has really stuck with me, and kind of makes me NOT want to read parenting books =) I just think you really hit on it when you talk about "expert"-driven parenting. Thanks for opening my eyes to it, so hopefully I can temper it when I'm the parent.

[Catherine]

I am having sleep issues as well. My son (who just turned one) will usually go to sleep in his crib, but he ALWAYS wakes up at least once. He cries and cries and cries and rarely goes back to sleep on his own, so he usually ends up in bed with me. This is not a problem now, since it's just me and him in bed, but when my husband gets home from Iraq this summer, we will definitely want to sleep alone!!! I'm not sure how to remedy this, I guess I'm just sort of hoping he'll start sleeping all night. I'm interested in seeing what your other readers have to say.

As far as CIO, it doesn't make me sad to listen to him cry as much as it makes me crazy, but the point is that it almost never works, so why put either of us through it? Especially since the moment he lays down next to me, he's out cold. At this point, I just want to do whatever I can to sleep through the night myself!!

[blog nerd]

Hmmm.

There's no ideological problem with CIO theory. There's a problem with defining terms.

CIO works for protest crying. Most new parents are afraid that any crying is fear/pain/isolation crying and not all crying is fear/pain/isolation related.

So these theories err on the side of giving new parents the courage to enforce good sleep habits.

Learning the difference between protest crying and other kinds of crying that require more tenderness is key.

Clearly you and Bryan know that there is something more than protest crying going on with Milla. You know the difference. You've already self-selected out of the context of most CIO books.

Here's another problem and why this issue is so polarized.

The clinical evidence shows that sleep is a learned habit and that training works because it is necessary.

Okay. But wait.

The clinical evidence also shows (CIO advocates be darned) that prolonged crying raises cortisol and blood pressure and this does have deleterious effects on the child.

What to do?

Wait one more second.

Certain conditions can lead some children to have a more difficult time falling and staying asleep.

Certain nutritional deficiencies (like, um, iron, for instance YES think about that) can lead to actual NIGHT TERRORS.

Most parents having trouble with sleeping are really dealing with fussers who are protesting being put to sleep. A little firmness on the part of the parent solves the issue.

So when folks are all up in the CIO Kool-Aid without even knowin' its flavor we're like what the??

It was never that big a deal in the first place, you dig? Five minutes here and there and the kid's out, you know? We are darn pleased with ourselves because with a minimum of effort our kid's sleep schedule looks like a text book on pediatric sleep habits.

The sleep books drive you crazy because THEY DON'T APPLY TO YOU. They are meant for the general public.

But there ARE some parents who have just not learned how to provide structure for their kid's sleep cycles. They just can't do anything that makes their kid unhappy, no matter how important it is.

That's a problem. If you look at how kids behave in the super market it may be a really big one.

Your instinct that Camilla is afraid is probably right. (And maybe wrong--it may not be existential fear but adrenal fear. They feel identicial so does it matter? Yes. And no. I digress.)

Ech. Stop feeling like you need to justify yourself and make a philosophy out of it.

Your gut can give you the wrong message because you have bad memories of waking up and being afraid and lonely as an older child. It's good to think about that a little. Memory or instinct?

But for the most part, clearly there is something different and more high needs about Milla's behavior from the get go. It's great that you are so responsible about that and that you've been able to make strong decisions.

Your reaction to CIO seems extreme to people who don't have babies like yours. Conversely, CIO seems completely cruel to a mother who has a child that experiences distress and fear at night.

So you see--everyone CAN be right on this issue. A little bit.

It's like the new math. (Oy.)

[Keri]

I agree with what blog nerd said. We did the CIO method with my daughter and it worked. When I put her to bed she is fully awake and she falls asleep within minutes. It was rought the first week, but now she gets more sleep than she did when I was going to her room everytime she woke up. She is also happier during the day because she has had a good nights sleep. There are times when I leave her room she is giggling and smiling - that right there tells me I did the right thing for our family. A family bed would not work for us - my husband has what I would say are close to night terrors and I would not feel safe with her in our bed.

[victoria]

I think that it is important for any parent to recognize their childs cues. some kids just need to cry - not escalate to a terror situation, but you know your own child. That being said, I'd like to make a comment on the "scared" to be alone issue. Firstly, I think most kids aren't scared, as others have mentioned, but pissed off and in a habit. But, if they are scared to be alone, I think that you need to help them deal with that issue. As a parent of an extremely anxious child (once almost ran into traffic to escape a tractor), I have done copious amounts of reading, and consulted a child psychologist on how best to deal with this. You need to desensitize your child to whatever their fear is (spiders, tractors, dogs, cats, being alone). The only way to do this is to gently introduce them to their fear. I think that is why so many parents do a modified version of CIO. Put them in their crib and stand next to them, then the next night, sit on the floor, then in the chair in the corner, then outside the door, til you don't have to be there anymore. I don't think that many parents would just remove their child from a dog without at least saying something to the effect of "look at the nice doggie, isn't he cute". If I had let Jack get his own way (avoidance) everytime he was afraid of something, he would hang off of me, and never go outside. NOw, with our love, patience and support, he is,mostly, anxiety free. But that was learned. And as his parent, it was my job to help him learn it. With sleeping, I think every parent just needs to find their own way to help them learn.

[Kelly]

Arwen,

Thanks for this... I've been feeling guilty about bringing my crying 6 month old into be to nurse and sleep next to me. We're trying to get him sleeping in his crib right next to our bed, but last night he spent most of his time in our bed!

Thanks for reaffirming that we do need to go with our gut and trust that responding to our babies' calls for attention and nurturing are OKAY! :)

[ls]

I have many friends who have used the CIO method successfully; meaning their children did not escalate, they only cried for a short amount of time, etc. What I dislike is the belief that all babies are the same, and therefore the exact same method will work for all of them, which is just not true. We would never expect an identical method of ANYTHING to work for every single adult, or older child, yet we somehow are unwilling to see babies as individuals.

[Stephanie]

We are completely different types of parents. My son slept in the room with us until he was three months old, then moved to his own bed. But I am not a fan of cry-it-out either. I tried it for a month when he was an infant, and I just didn't have the stomach for it. If he had been old enough for me to know he didn't really need anything, it would have been different. But at that age, their cries are not distinguishable - I couldn't tell "mad" from "hurt," and I wasn't willing to take the chance he actually needed something and I wasn't responding. So I rocked him to sleep until he began preferring his own bed to falling asleep on me. Even now (he's about the same age as Camilla) if he's not feeling well I'll rock him to sleep. It's worked out beautifully for us. He was (and is) a very cuddly baby and loved falling asleep close to us when he was younger.

I can't speak to what other parents do, I just know it wasn't for me. Mostly because I couldn't be sure if he was afraid or not. There are other times when he's allowed to complain, but that's what it is - he would like to be doing something different than what he's doing, but he's not in need in any way. This type of cry is very brief, and I can do allow him to do it with confidence.

[Rach]

I always thought CIO was FIO. We do FIO. My mom did FIO. We never cried more than 15 minutes before we gave it up. So in my mind, FIO was CIO. Enter my niece. 2 hours of CIO. She threw up in her bed. End of CIO. She is now a very happy and well-adjusted 4 year old.

I can tell when my children aren't going to FIO and they genuinely need something. Neither of my kids are high-needs, and I do wonder how I would be with a child who is an escalator. (I just got a picture in my mind of an escalator with a baby head on it. Sleep deprivation, anyone?)

It is hard for me to distinguish the line between parental manipulation and parental need. I do know many children who have their parents so wrapped around their fingers it is a bit disturbing. But that's not a CIO issue; that's a parenting issue.

I agree with Jen, too.

[Rach]

p.s. Your fear as a child has a LOT to do with it, as well. And Camilla doesn't calm easily. Combined, it provides for a tough situation. You would want to throw me off of a very tall building if you saw how long it took my children to fall asleep. It's just the way they were created, and Camilla was created the way she was created.

I was just thinking today that Lucy woke up at 5 am with a terrible dream about a man getting her. I suppose other parents might have just brought her a sippy of water and told her to go back to sleep after a short amount of cuddling. I, however, had many of the same fears that you did as a child, so that wasn't an option for me. We watched cartoons and talked until the sun rose. I was able to establish that she needed that from me. When I was 6 I slept in my parents' dressing room on the floor (we lived in a very old, cool house - it was a room right outside their bedroom) for 4 months. I was too scared to be alone. I am grateful for that time. And when I look back, that's exactly what I needed - to know that they were near.

You're doing a great job, mama!

[Christiana]

I haven't had the actual experience yet (27 weeks pregnant with my first) - and I haven't yet read ALL of the above comments, though i put a lot of stock in Arwen's opinions, so I agree that letting your child CIO for hours likely isn't doing any good overall.
I am a supporter of not picking up a child every single time she/he makes a fussy sound - but I'm pretty sure that's not what we're talking about here.

Many of the commenters above have pointed out that each child is different - I think anyone who is passionate about ONLY ONE METHOD needs to remember that - it's insane to think that every baby is going to respond the same to a situation like that - it might work for some, but it certainly won't work for others.

I also have a hard time believeing (though I do believe we are born with a sin nature) that a 4-month old is capable of that kind of manipulation - that the only reason they would scream would be to get their way.

Thanks for a very thought-provoking post, as always, Arwen.

[Stephanie]

Hi Catherine, we've had more naptime issues than bedtime with our son (who is the same age as yours). One thing I have done is to go to him, pick him up, hold him briefly and calm him down, then put him back in his bed. I still go to him when he cries, but I always put him back in his bed. The first night will be hard because he's changing a habit, but it will help him learn he's okay and that he needs to stay in his bed. This method has always worked for us when habits have started to pop up. Maybe it could help you? Also, my son's sleep is the first to go if he's not feeling well. Any chance he's cutting a tooth or something? I know exactly what you mean about not letting him cry because it just doesn't work. It doesn't work for my baby either.

[Kate]

I just wanted to chime in with those who've suggested that not all babies/small children are crying out of fear. I totally agree with your anti CIO stance assuming that the baby is crying out of fear. But, based on my sample size of one, I do not think that's always true. Last night as I lay next to my 3 year old son's bed praying he would just fall asleep already he suddenly stopped his off and on fussing and started screaming at the top of his lungs "I don't want to go to sleep. I want to play volleyball." I didn't even know he knew what volleyball was :) Anyway, I think that when we first tried cry it out with him (he was 13 months old and we never let him cry for more than 15 minutes, so I am not sure if that's CIO by your definition, but anyway...) that the crying was the same sort of crying it is now. That is, it was of "the last thing I want to be doing is lying in this crib and winding down mom, LET ME OUT!" sort, not the I am afraid sort. Our son loves bedroom, when he's there on his own terms, and I've never seen any indication that he's afraid of it or afraid to be there even with the light out. He just, for reasons unknown (not that we're not trying to divine them) takes FOREVER (3+ hours) to unwind and fall asleep. For us, the problem with leaving him alone in his bedroom to "cry it out" is that he doesn't cry, at least not in any sort of sustained fashion, and he also doesn't unwind or fall asleep.

[Slim]

The weirdest part of the CIO debate to me is members of older generations who think their grandchildren (or great gc) are being spoiled by parents who pick them up when they cry.
When did that belief rear its head? With Spock?
My mother (in her 70s) said that we were allowed to cry occasionally because she and my dad were dealing with the other kids. When I asked about letting us cry for half an hour or more, she looked completely shocked.
And while I don't remember ever sleeping in my parents' bed, my mother once commented on how nice and snuggly it is to have the baby in bed with you. And when Mom had nightmares as a little girl, my grandmother would sleep in her bed with her.
With my first, I was determined to begin as I planned to go on. Eventually I realized that soothing a baby does not commit you to spending three hours making sure your preschooler has a totally happy bedtime. As my children got older, I was comfortable saying, "I have to do chores, but I will come back to check on you" or "It's bedtime. You can look at a book, but you have to be quiet."
I think you are doing your children a favor by helping them learn to put themselves to sleep, but I don't think it does anyone any good to try to teach them that before they're ready to learn, and --hmm, has someone mentioned this already?-- that varied by child.

[Lisa]

For the first week we had her, Olivia slept with us in the bed. This was because we were stuck in a hotel waiting out the ICPC process for her adoption, and she WOULD NOT sleep in the pack-n-play. In bed, propped up on her boppy, she slept like a dream.

Now, though, she sleeps in her crib in her room. We had considered the bassinet in our room, but she doesn't like it and we discovered really quickly that we respond to every squeak and movement if she is so close to us. In her own bed, she sleeps 6-7 hour stretches at night, and as a 2-week-old, we consider that to be a huge blessing.

I honestly don't think CIO would ever work with our child. Crying just gets her more worked up, and if she gives an all out cry (after FIO for a few minutes and not calming down), I know that I need to get up or we all suffer. I know we haven't really tried CIO and we aren't experienced enough to know if we'd ever consider it as an option, but I just don't know if my nerves could handle that.

[Celeste]

I think it comes down to what parents believe the baby is expressing with the crying. If you believe it is total fear, then you will want to relieve it with your presence. If you believe it is manipulation, you might be more inclined not to reward it with your presence.

In my case, my daughter had such hysterical wrenching sobs in the night waking situation and clung to me hard when I picked her up...so I couldn't really see any manipulation there. I definitely felt there was an aspect of that as an older toddler around the time she became truly verbal, but it was more of a phase she went through than anything I would call a behavior problem, a transitory thing rather than a permanent issue. I do think that there are people who see CIO as a plan for tackling a behavior problem.

I hope this counts as civilized!!!! All I am really saying is that I think so much depends on the parents' view of the situation. I really wish there were easy answers, but oh how elusive they are!

[cjmr]

I tried cry it out with both my kids. It didn't really work for either of them.

On the other hand, there is no way we could ever have a family bed--I normally can't sleep with someone touching me.

What worked for both of them was music. I didn't hit on this until my son was six months old, but did it with my daughter from birth. We listened to the same lullaby music every night while I nursed them to sleep. Eventually we weaned from the nursing to rocking and music. Then we weaned from the rocking to just music. If they woke up crying in the middle of the night I'd go in and restart their music and nurse/rock/pat them back to sleep (depending on what stage of the process we were on). We brought the music with us when we traveled, too, so that something would be familiar about where they were sleeping. Naptime rules were--you have to stay in your bed for the length of the CD, if you're still awake at the end you may get up and play quietly until Mom comes to get you. (At first that took lots of putting him/her back in bed before it 'took' but it worked out eventually.)

As far as I can tell, there is always a more gentle solution than cry it out.

[Dooneybug]

Oh Arwen, you're so funny!

I personally have never had sleep issues with my children. I mean, not yet, I guess there's always still time for something to develop. So I can't speak on written sleep training techniques or anything of that sort because I've never read a single book on babies/children sleep issues.

With our son we have a very ritualistic bed time routine which I think really makes the difference in him understanding it's bed time. We started that at 3 weeks old. On the occasion that he has a bad night, we will go in to calm him every 10 minutes or so. That way he knows we are near and not abandoning him. I have no idea if that is a "technique" or not, it's just what works for us.

Our daughter must be narcoleptic, because as soon as we hit about 7:30 pm she WANTS to go to bed and will sleep a good 12 hours solid. Yes, she is a freak baby and we are very lucky. So far. I mean, you always have to throw that clause in.

[Kate]

I think pretty much everything to be said has been said here - I agree with Arwen for the most part, think that the most important lesson is know thy child and listen to your gut (though parents who were poorly parented themselves may need to retrain their gut reactions), and think that many of the sleep expectations we have as a society are completely unrealistic.

I appreciate Arwen's distinction between CIO and FIO, and make the same distinction myself. Mostly because I've only encountered CIO in my peers among dogmatic Ezzo-ites, and that has left a bad taste in my mouth. IMO, that sort of one size fits all, you are dooming your child to a lifetime of disobedience and sin unless you break their wills early, kind of parenting theory does a great disservice to the insecure and well meaning parents who seek it out/get sucked up in it.

I did want to respond to the distinction a lot of people are making between angry crying and scared crying...how do you know that an angry infant isn't angry because they feel abandoned? That seems as reasonable an explanation as that they are being manipulative or trying to exert some sort of power over the situation. In any case, FIO or sleep training (setting a routine and going through stages of withdrawing from the room) will answer as well as CIO without taking the chance that you are leaving your child feeling abandoned.

And I think a child that is too young to understand "Mama and Papa are in the other room, we're not going anywhere" is too young to be left alone to scream, whether because it leaves them feeling scared, abandoned, or simply out of control. The cut-off for when that understanding develops is different for each child, and of course, not every child is going to scream. Some will self-soothe well, some need to be taught self-soothing. But trying to teach an infant who doesn't settle well to self-soothe by refusing them any resources but their own is akin to teaching a 5 year old to swim by throwing him into the deep end of the pool. There's no teaching involved in either situation!

[Sarah]

I'm glad you mentioned
The "fuss-out" versus "cry-out"
Distinction. It's big.

I mostly concur
With your thoughts re: "extinction
Cry-it-out". Icky.

I strongly suspect
Ferber et al. have "tension-
Releasers" in mind.

In which case it works
Brilliantly, as I've seen,
With kids like our girl.

[Julie]

We did CIO with our eldest. The crying didn't bother me a lot, but then again I was on some pretty strong medication to keep me from spending my days sitting on the floor weeping. We had an opposite situation from most...my MIL refused to let her fuss at all...at home she would go to sleep without any problems, but MIL would always try to rock her and she wanted no part of it, and never took a nap there. Ever. I would pick her up and take her home and deal with unbelievable crankiness because she was so overtired.

That said, observing her personality now, I think I'd do things differently if given the opportunity. I do agree with those who have commented that babies don't necessarily always cry to signal fear...mine cried because she was MAD. She is easily frustrated and responds to conflict with anger first. I do wonder if I had dealt with her anger as a baby better, if I'd be dealing with these issues now. But it is what it is...

My youngest was a different story entirely -- didn't sleep a wink during the day until she was 6 months old, but slept well at night from the get-go with no fanfare. I cast aside my "oh no, I shouldn't nurse her/rock her to sleep because then she'll never get to sleep on her own" mentality when I realized that it didn't matter -- I was always there. And it turned out I loved every minute of that time with her.

[Maggie]

I have never seen a haiku about cry-it-out before. I love it!!!

[Beth]

I have seen children CIO at daycare practically all day long and it breaks my heart.

[kris]

I'm coming from the other end of the spectrum. I don't think my mom *ever* let me CIO.

But we co-slept until I was like 8.

I was the one who said "enough is enough" and learned to sleep on my own. *She* needed to know that I was protected and safe and not afraid. IMO it is a very fine balance between knowing your child and not projecting your fears onto him or her.

Clearly Arwen knows her kid and won't make her feel insecure about being by herself - and that's the best kind of parenting I can think of.

*ramble over*

[Margaret]

Since I don't have kids yet, I tend to hesistate formulating a set opinion on issues like this, because as everyone has said before- all kids are different. However, I tend to agree with Arwen because CIO to me just seems counterintuitive. I am anxious to see though, when I do have kids, what our families will have to say about that particular parenting choice.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I don't have kids, but my mom sums up her philosophy thus: "When I left her (my older sister) to cry it out she threw up. I decided it was easier to rock her back to sleep than change the sheets."

I don't think I cried much as a baby, but from preschool to...um...probably my freshman year of college I had major insecurity issues. When I was little and my mother tried to leave me in the nursery at the Y I would scream continuously until she came back. For me it wasn't so much of a sleep issue as being in an unfamiliar environment. I do think, though, that the fact that she responded helped. I just wasn't ready to venture out on my own until I was probably 16 or 17. I'm perfectly normal now, though.

Or anyway normal enough.

[Megan Elizabeth]

To clarify--I was not shrieking for my mother at 15 when I was left alone. I did, however, get extremely anxious whenever I was faced with an unfamiliar situation.

[alicia]

blog nerd!!! I could kiss you for your comment.

Personally, I haven't done CIO. Haven't needed to. And wouldn't want to, I don't think. But if the need arose, I'd consider it more carefully.

BUT. I think anyone, no matter how well meaning, that goes on at such length about CIO or any other parenting choice they've made is, essentially, passing judgment. As if to say, well if people had only researched and reflected as thoroughly and deeply as I did, well, they couldn't possibly come to another conclusion. Despite whatever disclaimers to the contrary.

Different solutions work for different families. There are plenty of very arguments against all of the parenting choices we make. Yet, we make them with the best intentions, with the unique needs of our children in mind. To go on and on to justify any single choice? I have to say, I think that only serves to convince oneself they've made the right choice.

[Salome Ellen]

This comment is late because I got involved in reading the rest of them and forgot to put in my two cents. Which is -- parenting is not pass/fail. I tried lots of things with you kids; some worked, some didn't. But you all seem to be turning out OK within the limits of your VERY different personalities!

[Hoo]

I don't think I can add anything someone else hasn't already said. If I ever actually read a CIO book I thought it was clear on going back in some sort of increments - not letting the child shriek alone for hours, but I haven't read up on it and it never worked for me anyway. My kids seem prone to night terrors, so I am now intrigued by one poster's comments about vitamin deficiencies...hmm. Off to google...

[Rhianna]

What blog nerd said.

I think we have to be careful about what the child is "saying" by her cries. Scared, freaked-out cries? By all means, don't leave her to cry. P*ssed off, mad cries because she'd rather be playing with her older brothers? Umm, probably OK to leave her.

You clearly know what Milla needs when she cries, and it's wonderful that you are attentive to that. With my kids (and let me make it clear that this was always after a year of age or so-- I can't imagine CIO with little, little babies) it was obvious that their crying was protest crying, not scared crying. They were clearly MORE angry if I stayed in the room while they cried-- it gave them someone to whom to protest!

So let's make sure our starting assumptions are the same before we start making blanket statements about how a child feels when being left to CIO.

[Catherine]

Arwen, I think it's great you are responding to Camilla's needs in the way that you feel is best, but you should be careful about generalizing from your own situation. Just because you feel that Camilla might be traumatized if you tried letting her cry until she fell asleep, does not mean that that is what is going on in other homes. When people say "cry it out" by and large they are expecting ten or twenty minutes of fussing. It's actually pretty uncommon that a baby is as persistent as Camilla (or my son). Your idea of babies screaming hysterically for hours on end seems like a straw man. Where are your examples?

As well, I don't know how your friend could possibly remember how he was put to bed as a baby, and it sounds as if he left out some important details.

It's unusual for babies to scream hysterically in fear when their parents leave the room. There is such a thing as separation anxiety, but by and large it passes quickly when Mom and Dad leave. The idea that she is scared to be alone sounds like it may be a projection, and yes a one year old is absolutely old enough and smart enough to figure out that mom and dad come running when they hear a certain type of communication.

So what I am saying is you are starting to cross the line between, "We are doing what's right for us, thank you," and "What YOU are doing is wrong." If the kids seem happy and well adjusted, and the studies back them up (and I promise you that modern science can tell the difference between a traumatized child and a happy one quite easily), then what exactly is your problem with the CIO crowd, other than the fact that they are pushing you?